You wish[]
the BBS is highly Japanese, so naturally people who posted there are all Japanese, some of the nicks used suggested that there were Chinese or Taiwanese posted there, too, although it can just be some Japanese who want to use unique names. I'm not exactly sure but it seems like I was the only people who speak English who posted there. Ok, forget what I said, the answer to your question is no, because everybody are Japanese. But anyway, thank for asking this question because I never realized that there isn't any official English names for the Western Characters. I checked my 11eyes CrossOver Visual Guide Book, apparently, in the non-colors pages that list the names of all CrossVision scenes, there are English names for Lisett and Verard. Lisette is Lizet Veltole, Verard is Vellerd.
Anyway, after posting all that much, it seems like there are quite some discrepancies between our understanding of parts of the games. I was wondering if you want to share some of the your understanding so we can see which parts need clarification, and it might also help me, because sometimes you might have questions or things that I mislooked. Also, I asked you about verification is not because I care that the info posted out there would be wrong, we can always edit and reedit, like I said, the reason I asked was just because of EveFall, lol.
By the way, did you have any luck understanding the discussion between Johanna and Hieronymus or Sophia about parallel worlds. I still have minor problems with getting a clear understanding on that part. Sigh, I don't really want to reinstall the game again.
Really hope that Girls Sanctuary Girls Megalith Xenofield turned out to as philosophistical as 11eyes instead of like Festa!! Well, after all the milking from 11eyes, Lass should know what make money now. I had access to the prelude book now, if you want some info, I'll tell.
Last thing, which state are you living in? Our time zones are different it seems.
Jishou 06:11, January 31, 2012 (UTC)
HAVE YOU[]
seen the short stories in 11eyes Resona Forma? If you have, can you tell me what the one that has Yukiko in the red night? What's also the interesting short story you went over in the game?
(76.211.225.180 10:16, Janurary 30, 2012 (UTC)
Actually[]
The protag is the one is with the least information. His design is still currently under development. His name is Takagi Shun, and yes, he is Takagi Sana's brother. He is apparently a college student 2nd year. He is apparently an orphan with a surrogate mother. Since you are only interested in the protag, this is the only info I'll give.
Jishou 09:39, January 31, 2012 (UTC)
lol[]
By experience, you should have known the protag would be design last. First, player rarely see the protag picture. Second, the majority of them don't even have voices. Third, the protag is kinda built to resolve the story, so he is kinda like a plot device. Ok, http://lass.jp/11eyes_worldConsideration.jpg, let's see if you can understand this diagram.
Jishou 18:15, January 31, 2012 (UTC)
I wonder[]
about Liselotte's way to kill the apostles. In fact, I don't know really if the manner to kill them was just Liselotte who wanted just saw them die cruelly and she just imagined a way to kill them or she killed them functions of them and their feelings ? It's a bit weird like question, I know, it's just that's shocked me. I expected their deaths but not like that. Can you clarify me about that ?
EveFall 20:50, January 31, 2012 (UTC)
You almost got it right[]
The first thing is that Lieselotte's Phantasmagoria is a reality invading Marble Reality (unlimited magical power, duh).
Let's put that aside first, so, you almost got it right, except for the fact that La Casa de Dios and Astral Temple are really the same thing. Yes, it was casted using either magical power or life force of the apostle in order to stop the Black Moon from descending further, however, that's not the only thing it was good for, it was also created in order to provide safe haven for Georgius when he is cultivating energy for Arcus Pactum. In addition, according to Benedictus, it can turn the advantage in favor of the team inside it since it's basically another kekkai, so like 3days, a kekkai inside a kekkai. The reason Lieselotte touch the wall and let her hand be shot off is just to test how good this "spiritual barrier" is, it's also her vain way of doing thing. And about the different in Ayanus and the six towers between the real world and the Red Night, you are also right, except for the fact that the difference is not due to Lieselotte being sealed inside, it's due to the fact that the Astral Temple is another kekkai.
By the way, Arcus Pactum is not what it really seems, if you have read Johanna and Hieronymus I, you should know that they debated whether parallel worlds exist and what really is the effect of the spell.
Shishibunroku-san from Lass explained to one of the player on the BBS by linking to a youtube video of Bioshock: infinite tears where the game designers explain about the tears.
Jishou 01:24, February 4, 2012 (UTC)
No and not sure what you are talking about[]
You shouldn't overcomplicate things, when I said they're the same spell, I meant it. There is no step 1 or 2. It's just the apostle decided to call it one way, and Lieselotte decided to call it the other way. Or let me put it like this. La Casa de Dios is the specific name of a spell, Astral Temple is a category of spell. Not sure whether time space thing you talked about is right or not, but just understand what Arcus Pactum does isn't enough because it will raise more question, you also have to understand the whole world view that Johanna was telling Sophia to tie everything together. --Jishou 13:51, February 4, 2012 (UTC)
WHAT ROUTE[]
does the cg that shows MIsuzu, Takahisa, and Kakeru eating ramen as chibis come from? The cg is on Misuzu's page if you don't know what cg I'm talking about. It's at the very bottom at the trivia section.
(76.211.225.180 01:23, Feburary 04, 2012 (UTC)
I think I sorta[]
understand the world view and the parallel world theory now, but it's still difficult to put it into word. I'll need some verification, I'll need to reread the part about the toy house and marbles analogy.
Oh, yah, it seems like I was right about Michel Maximillian. After reading the BBS today, I notice Shishi bunroku-san did write that he is indeed Nyarlathotep, or at least was inspired from this Cthulan's deity. Huh huh huh, I must hand it to myself. How did I catch that when I was reading the original when I only had 2 courses of Japanese without using a translation machine. LOL
By the way, the whole world view seems to draw inspiration and analogy from a lot of high level modern physics and mathematics concepts. I kinda understand the phrase in front of the door of the modern club right now. Abandon all hope before you play this game because it's difficult to understand.
One more unrelated thing, Arcus Pactum is called Pact of the Rainbow, Ayamegaoka means Iris Hill (Iris is the Greek Goddess of Rainbow), and Kouryoukan school logo is inspired from this passage from the Bible, "When the rainbow is in the clouds, I will notice it and remember the perpeptual covenant between God and all living creatures of all kinds that are on earth." A passage describes the scene after Noah survive the Great Flood.
Jishou 02:12, February 5, 2012 (UTC)
Correction[]
Both Benedictus' and Shiori's ultimate spell are the same. The spell is called Bibliotheca Pan Magica, the incantation is Vulnerant Omnes, Ultima Necat. Benedictus only have 600 grimoires, Shiori have 5000, of course. The mechanism of the spell is the same as what I told you guys before.
One more correction, please forget what I said about Astral Temple and La Casa De Dios, you were right. See this is the reason I need verification. lol.
Jishou 06:57, February 5, 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for[]
writing the after stories of Misuzu and Kukuri, as well as Scholastica's profile. I always wanted knowing what's happening to them, even if Kukuri's after story is a bit short. Will you do Yukiko's too?
Nevertheless, I have some question about their profile. I thought that Misuzu killed her father in the original, and that's why she had been exiled. But he's still alive in her story, isn't he? I was surprised by their change of attitude toward each other after that. It's the same for Scholastica and her brother because he seems to be rather mean with her, according to her profile, unlike in the original. I'm sorry, it's just I misunderstood it.
EveFall 21:15, February 5, 2012 (UTC)
DOES IT[]
There's a cg that has Yukiko has her hair tied in ponytails and is only wearing a night shirt. I got confused if some were from Yukiko's route, or Takahisa's route (since you said that his route ends with an h-scene.) Can you answer where the cg is from? Here's the link:
http://www.lightnovel.cn/thread-299676-1-1.html
(76.211.225.180 10:01, Feburary 5, 2012 (UTC)
Apparently because[]
of the anime, everyone think now that Yuka's route is the most annoying, but according to Jishou, there is an interesting part toward the end (unfortunately nothing with the Red night). By the way, does Ema appear in Yukiko's after story?
EveFall 08:55, February 6, 2012 (UTC)
Do you know[]
who is the Wikia Contributor who makes comment on the profiles?
PS: I know it's a weird question, but are you agree if I correct your spelling mistakes (there are very little) ? How I haven't made any contribution yet, I wondered how it's worked.
EveFall 18:53, February 6, 2012 (UTC)
Nope[]
That's not it. I finally understand everything now. The only thing left is to understand what is Johanna. Huhhuhhuh (sinister laugh).
By the way, I thought I told you before but it seems the message didn't get through. Do you remember those extremely high resolution black and white pics I uploaded that have design planning information on them. 1 of those picture, the on that was posted on the Crom Cruach's page, is wrong. That picture describe a Larvae creature who had reached reptile level evolution. That's absolutely not Crom Cruach's desgin. Oh, one more thing, I knew this long ago but it seems you never notice but Crom Cruach has an awesomely gross attack that can be seen in the apostle's route. I'm feeling mysterious today so I'm not spilling anything.
By the way, do you know that the Uvarovite Trapezohedron is actually inspired from H.P. Lovecraft Shining Trapezohedron, from his story the Haunter of the Dark, an artifact that can call forth Nyarlathotep and also have interreality power.
Jishou 05:29, February 7, 2012 (UTC)
Okay[]
I will do that when I'll have the time. For the contributor, I don't know if actually there are two or if the contributor loves speaking in differents languages. It beyond me.
EveFall 06:39, February 7, 2012 (UTC)
About Francine[]
I have just a question about it: is it a human flesh or is it something else?
EveFall 18:14, February 7, 2012 (UTC)
H.P. Lovecraft[]
was either psychotic or had an extremely nasty brain because everything he thought up are just plain mind raping. Try searching for google for Cthulu and Azathoth. About Arcus Pactum, it has nothing to do with time. The key to understand it is to understand what are alternate realities. I'll give you some hints, the answer is within the last scene of the prologue and the scene where Sophia sliced Johanna's head off. Note it when Sophia asked Johanna why is the God Name Tablet has so many facet, and Johanna said, "yes, why?" and an analogy can be drawn between the Emerald Tablet and alternate realities. The world consideration picture that I linked to you can also help, provided that you are able to read it. There is also this link http://www.ryoushi-rikigaku.com/con_cloud.html, which unfortunately, also in Japanese.
The Crom Cruach's attack doesn't actually eat people up, they just overwhelm them so that Crom Cruach can jump in and eat them up, it's like a distraction and binding that secure a prey for the dragon.
By the way, Johanna loves Jesus is not a speculation, it's kinda explicitly stated in the scene called, "The Sinner".
Another thing, or correction, the Fragments did inherit their power from Lieselotte, but the way they were inherited is very different from how we think they were. I thought that the fragment powers are not inherited from Lieselotte but rather generated by the fragment of the Void Stone. The stone did fuse with the witch's soul. But now when I understand the working of Arcus Pactum, I can see how the fragments inherited Lieselotte's power.
Jishou 18:40, February 7, 2012 (UTC)
Kekkai-kekkai-kekkai[]
Dang, Miyu and Ryouichi thought it was crazy enough in 3days that Valter made one kekkai (his reality marble) inside another (the one that isolated the park), and then when I reread the apostle scenes, there is too many kekkai. First is Phantasmagoria, then La Casa De Dios in attempt to restrict Lieselotte movement and to contain the Black Moon, then Astral Temple to provide a space for Arcus Pactum execution, then even the crystal that was used to seal Lieselotte is another kekkai. I think we should drop the word Reality Marble and go for Specialized Bounded Field instead. The term koyuu has many meanings, in Nasuverse, it means inherant, as in inherant to a particular person, in 11eyes, it means characteristics, as in a barrier with special characteristics incorporate inside.
OK, that is not the how you get a white marble out of all the other stuff that explain Reality Marble that Nasuverse talks about. That link is something called the visualization of the concept of a brand. I'll give you another hint. What Johanna and Hieronymus and Sophia was talking about are all about quantum physics, the Everett interpretation vs Copenhagen interpretation. I'll try to explain to you tomorrow if you still don't get the answer.
About If Story, I'll check it for you some later time.
Jishou 09:20, February 8, 2012 (UTC)
Nope[]
Same kana, same kanji. But Marble Reality is an official Anglicized term by Type-Moon. There are no official Anglicized term for Koyuu Kekkai in 11eyes.
I didn't do well in physics either, and I never had quantum physics, too. You can understand the scheme and never realize it's just quantum physics. I read the BBS and someone was discussing this with Shishi bunroku. I must admit, after understand what Johanna said, it's much easier to understand the Schrodinger's cat experiment. They key to understand this theory is to cross out the thought that alternate realities are different possibilities due to a choices being made at a period in time. In other words, cross out that tree diagram and pay attention to the phrases with dot on top of them in the conversation. About the Bioshock video, my bad, it was used to demonstrate the quantum physics I was talking about and in a way related to parallel world theory Johanna was talking about.
Jishou 16:39, February 8, 2012 (UTC)
I did[]
Shiori's relationships in her profile. Can you tell me if it's correct or if I must adding something?
EveFall 19:16, February 8, 2012 (UTC)
Don't worry[]
I'll walk you by slowly. In Johanna and Hieronymus I, Johanna came and talked to Hieronymus about Shiori's report, at the same time telling him about what happened in Ayamegaoka, to which Hieronymus raised a few questions about Arcus Pactum. First, he said if parallel world is indeed based on other possibilities of the current world, then the target of the spell (if we assume that the spell split the target into randomly chosen worlds) would also exist in those worlds, and so there is no meaning in the effect of the spell. Johanna then asked that what if the spell splits the target into worlds where that person doesn't exist at all. Hieronymus replied that then the spell has to have very clear definition of what is parallel worlds, and it doesn't seem to be the case. Then Hieronymus further added that why 7 and why not more or less, and proposed that it could be due to the limitation of the user. He further added that if parallel world is indeed unlimited possibilities of this world, then wouldn't there also exist unlimited number of worlds where unlimited (same) targets of the spell exist, which doesn't make any sense. Johanna then asked if Hieronymus is also like Sophia, who doesn't believe in parallel worlds. Hieronymus replied that unlike the witch, he is more of an agnostic. He said that granted if parallel worlds exist, even then it wouldn't be like the one that Chiara reads in her novels. Besides, the target is splited into something called fragments of the void, something abstract, something immaterial. Therefore, a person existence isn't defined by how that person looks, but rather defined by various factors that gather together at one place at a moment in time, that's how we perceive someone's existence. Johanna remarked that it's like a predetermined size toy house that is decorated with marbles. Then she asked if the world is something predetermined like a toy house. Hieronymus replied that the ancient Greek philosopher Xenophanes thought of existence as being made up by 4 necessary factors, and the number of worlds, while being limitless, is limited by time. Then he added that when Ursula and the gang faced Lieselotte, everything takes place in the world we all well known of, human take human shape, environment is environment as the eyes can see. It's like the world has to be this way and can't be something else. Like God who made human in his image, there is a certain rule that must be followed for a "world" to happen. Then he said that Johanna was leading him into this conclusion because she used the word "convergence" when she was talking about how Kukuri recreated the world.
Funny how I had the exact same question as Hieronymus when I finished the original.
To be continued
Jishou 04:58, February 9, 2012 (UTC)
So I[]
will try to do all the relationships, if that's correct. I made Kukuri's and Saiko's relationships too, and adding a bit in Shiori's section.
EveFall 06:33, February 9, 2012 (UTC)
ABOUT[]
the cg of Misuzu, Kakeru, and Takahisa as chibis eating ramen I asked about, you said it also was from another route right? I'm predicting here, but is it from Yukiko's route also?
(76.211.225.180 11:12, Feburary 9, 2012 (UTC)
The second part[]
isn't Hieronymus and Johanna II, it's the scene when Sophia slashed Johanna's head off. There are two definition that one must understand before knowing what Johanna was talking about. Monad and Idea. The kanji underline Monad means necessary factors, the kanji underline Idea means true nature. Have you ever wonder why Johanna said at first there is no parallel worlds, only one world, and then after that she said there is and Sophia said she was contradicting herself? In her scheme of the world, there is an Observer (God) seeing the world. What he observes isn't exactly the world as we observe, what he observes are collections of Monads. Now that's where that link I give you that you thought were used to explain Reality Marble in Type-Moon come into place. Let's say every marble represents a Monad. When we think or conceptualize something, let's say when I think of you, I will conceptualize 11eyes, I will conceptualize an admin, I will conceptualize someone who leave messages for me. Now everyone of those concepts (Monads) have to gather together at the same time for me to see an image of you in my head. (The black marbles within the pictures represent concepts that gather together when one think of something). Now think of what I just told you in a much grander scale, when the Observer sees all these Monads arranged so that it represent the world, what his eyes see is the world as we know it. Now, let assume that everyone of these Monads is literally a marble, and they arrange themselves in space (3D). Let also assume that the Observer also have eyes like human, that he can only see in (conceptual) 2D and he doesn't know that the arrangement of Monads is in 3D. Then depend on how the Observer looks (from the top? from the side?), the world will be different (in other words, the Observer think he see different things when he looks at the arrangements of Monad differently). However, what made up of you is still you, what made up of me is still me. A marble is still a marble, no matter how you look at it. In other words, the Idea (true nature) for everything are unchanged, it's just when the Observer looks at the whole arrangement of Monads in "space" from one angle vs another, things appear to have been arranged differently. This is how parallel worlds come about. This is why Johanna said there is only one world (one "core conceptual world") and yet there are many worlds. Can you see the Emerald Tablet analogy now. The Emerald Tablet only have one power, but depend on how the processors perceive it based on what they believe and what they know that it manifest its power differently. And then the Gold Name Tablet analogy, "why does it has so many facets?"
Now, what Arcus Pactum does is it separates the Monads that made up a person and scatters these Monads. Remember that for someone to be conceptualized (to exist), all the Monads that make up that person have to clump together at one place. If the Observer can't see you, you simply don't exist. If you rewatch the scene when Lieselotte was sealed. When the crystals surrounded her, she saw the image of her using fire being drained away (and other images too). This explain why Yuka, Yukiko, and Takahisa has her abilities, because her concepts are infused into them. This also explains why it's Lisett who appeared to be sealed instead of Lieselotte, because Lieselotte simply didn't exist at that time. Since the "core concept world" is in 3D, when Lieselotte's Monad is scattered, it spreads out into parallel universe (or what appear as parallel universes, to the eyes of the Observer).
I will explain the quantum physics analogy next time.
Until then
Jishou 19:41, February 9, 2012 (UTC)
I wanted[]
link the names but I didn't know how do it. But thanks for your correction.
EveFall 15:29, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
Okay[]
thanks Venom00. You can correct me if there are informations wrong in the sections.
EveFall 17:15, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
No[]
That part is when Johanna asked Sophia what is personality, Sophia answered personality is not something one notice alone, it's something relative, personality only arise when you compare it to someone else.
Like promise, I will explain how quantum physics relate to the view of the world. So I would assume that you have a least beginner level chemistry, by beginner, I mean college, not high school chemistry. So in chemistry, we learned that electrons have a dual nature, that is, they are both wave and particle. So here is the point, there are two views about the nature of subatomic particles. The first view, called the Copenhagen's interpretation, is analogous to Johanna's world view. It state that particles like electron exist both as wave and particle at the same time, it depend on the experiment you do that they appear either as wave or particle. The second view is the Everett's view, which states that subatomic particle can be in either state, not both at the same time. The is also the Schrodinger's cat thought experiment, which was thought up to ridicule the Copenhagen's interpretation. If you read A Certain Magical Index, you would have heard of it, but may not know what it is. In this hypothetical experiment. A cat is locked up in a box for 1 hour with a teeny tiny amount of radioactive material. Since this amount is so tiny, after 1 hour, an atom might decay, it might not. If it decay, a detector will detect it and will activate a hammer that will break a tube with cyanide, which will kill the cat. Assume that the box is totally seal so no one can see until it's opened. The Copenhagen interpretation will say that the cat is both alive and death after 1 hour, and when someone open the box to see, one of the state (death or alive) will collapse into another. The Everett's interpretation will say that after 1 hour, the cat is either death or alive, and at this 1 hour mark, the world is split into 2, 1 with the alive cat, 1 with the death. The point of this experiment is to ridicule the Copenhagen's view, because it's absurb that the cat will be death and alive at the same time. But this thought experiment can't prove Copenhagen's interpretation wrong because subatomic particles does not behave the same way as macro objects. The Bioshock video was talking about the same thing, the tears are things that was existing and not existing at the same time in that world, and until the player decide to tell Elizabeth to bring which one into existence that things collapse into one state. That is to say, in our classical choices depend parallel world view, 1 person became 2 the moment they are present with choices. In Johanna's view, there is only one person, and that person live different lives at the same time.
Next time I will explain about Johanna, it will blow your mind out, may be not.
Jishou 22:01, February 10, 2012 (UTC)
I'm doing[]
Sebastianus's relationships section, but beside Elaine, I didn't find someone else to add. Is there someone else I can adding in his section ?
EveFall 18:07, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
Hmm[]
still no, but I think I see where you are talking about now. There were 2 instants that Johanna was saying, "You're sharp today, Sophia", to ridicule her, kinda. But I assure you, there is nothing about what make up an individual. The first time Johanna said it was when Sophia realized that the Emerald Tablet is not just a simple stone that was deposited with magical energy. The second time she said it was when Sophia said (regarding the power of the Emerald Tablet) that, "Nonsense, that's like a game, which allow you to easily create worlds as you wish, such childish thought". Then I think I have pinpointed the phrase you were refering to, when Sophia said, "Idea has always been the same, but depend on the various perceptions about it, many powers were produced". Roughly this one, this is when Sophia were talking about the power of the Emerald Tablet. You are right in the sense that it hints toward the nature of the world, but there is nothing about what made up an individual. Johanna only started to talk about parallel world during Johanna and Hieronymus I.
Wait, I think I also got another one, you couldn't be referring to when Sophia was talking about limited and limitless with Johanna, could you. That isn't about individual at all, that was when Sophia talked about how Magi approaches the world to try to understand it, and she was mad that Johanna was implying that what Magi want to reach (like how Magi in Type-Moon want to get to Akasha) is the same thing as the Catholic God, which started their debate.
Jishou 20:17, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
I think[]
I will do it. Maybe I will adding Lieselotte in his section, speaking about their combat, but for the rest...If there is anyone else, tell me. Thanks you.
EveFall 23:23, February 11, 2012 (UTC)
I did[]
relationships section of nearly every characters ( except Kakeru who was too long, so I will keep him for later. And Chiara because I haven't enough informations about her) so can you check on it for me, please ? I think I did it rather right, but I would like be sure. Thanks you.
EveFall 16:55, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
I see which part[]
you are pointing to now. About the perception thing, on the grander scheme, you are right, but when limiting to those phrase, not totally right. Because on the grander scheme, Johanna is leading the conversation toward the power of the Emerald Tablets and what is percepted as the power of the fragments. Going by phrase, Johanna asked, "Then...what exactly is a personality? For human, is it the shape of their body? Gender? Nature? Characteristics? Or even...the shape of their souls?" Sophia, "All wrong... Personality is nothing more than the result of how one person look at someone else. In the end, a person can't see beyond their senses and the knowledge their process. So personality is not something one would notice by oneself". I guess you are focusing on the perception part, but I was focusing on the "personality is not something one notice by oneself", which is to me is more hint toward the title of the game, "Resona Forma".
About Johanna's nature, can you guess what she is? May be you've already know the answer.
Jishou 22:26, February 12, 2012 (UTC)
huh huh huh huh, Ok[]
I'll spill. If you know Type-Moon, then you must know Gaia and Alaya, the two forces of nature, one strives to keep the world away from mankind, the other the opposite. The key is in Hieronymus and Johanna II. If you read the scene and understand it, you must have known that in the scene, Johanna asked Hieronymus why is it that as time passes on, technology lost to mankind will be once again surface and become much more refined, easier to understand, easier to utilize by man? It's as if God is pushing for it. And that is why, as the head of Index, she pushes for the elimination of sorcery, to let science fluorish, to bring down equality in technology to all mankind, so that no matter in which world, God can observe all beings. That is the hint toward what she is. She (and Michel) are what is called a "Phenomenon", a force of nature. This is the law of nature she was talking about, because she had understood this, and pushes for it. God has perceived her as an extension of nature, a manifestation of that force that pushes toward the evolution of technology, so that's why she is "necessary", because no matter in which world, God perceives her as something necessary, and so she will always exist, her Monads in different worlds might be a little different (yes, she IS SISTER MARIA), but her Idea of pushing thing forward will always be the same. This is why when Sophia slided her head off, the body simply disappear and she is back like nothing ever happen, because no matter what happen to her, God will always see to it that her Monads are back together, whole and complete and exactly like how they originally are. And yes, in case if you are wondering, she can stand a full blast of Arcus Pactum and just come back safe and sound. The other way you can look at this is that she had fooled the world into thinking that she is necessary, and so as long as this is the case, nothing can delete her.
Michel is also a "Phenomenon", but he represents Chaos.
Jishou 08:34, February 13, 2012 (UTC)
That's[]
really depend on how you see it. And don't beat yourself up for not catching this. It's very subtle, even if you know she is a Phenomenon, your head will keep asking how? And you must read really carefully to understand, I didn't catch it either until I read the BBS. They're imbalance, but their power lie in convincing people and influence them. There are about 2.5 ways they can be kill, but it's just impossible for any creature to do it. Now do you know what is the true power of the Emerald Tablet? Reality warping is true, but there is another way to put it that is more appropriate in term of the game. --Jishou 18:05, February 13, 2012 (UTC)
According to the BBS[]
"Phenomena" exist as long as God sees them as necessary. Therefore, there are 2 ways to get rid of them. The first way is to make God believes that they are no longer necessary, which I think is just plain impossible, so I came up with an alternative, (this is when the 0.5 comes in), is if you can convince the "phenomena" themselves that they are wrong. If they lose the will to maintain their ideals, they'll become unnecessary. This is almost as impossible as the first, think anyone can beat them in debate, but at least the person can try.
The second way is if someone can improve "Arcus Pactum" so that after the blast, God can't consciously put their Monads back together, another outright impossible thing.
Jishou 04:11, February 14, 2012 (UTC)
I think[]
currently, it's best to think of God is an individual, although what his eyes see is the world. Let's looks at it this way, God is an animation artist, so what he think necessary will be necessary, not what his drawing think necessary. People can still believe in Christianity while God might just think that the Monads will arrange themselves toward my ideal, even without Johanna to push for it. In other words, phenomenon is just a plot device to tie things up. Besides, it's Johanna thought to carry out the ideal that make her a phenomenon. Even if no one want to believe her, if she still has that thought in her head, she still has the will to carry out what God think is necessary and she would still be a working (not broken) tool to him.
The point is that this is not the same as rejection, because God is the cause, and men are the effect, not the other way around.
Jishou 19:02, February 14, 2012 (UTC)
I will[]
update some of relationships section, because I have some of doubt about. As some of characters are really complex, I've doubt on their sincerity. I'm really sorry to ask you that, but can you clarify me about these followings section please? Thanks you.
- In the anime, Yuka seemed caring about her comrades, but in the episode 9, when Shiori said her "I don't know if the others will survive" Yuka said "As long as Kakeru is fine, I'm fine." So, I wonder really if her "friendship" she had for them was real or not.
- Sophia and Johanna. I know Sophia is an ancient member of Thule, so they aren't maybe the best friends in the world, but I really doubt of her loyality toward her. Moreover, she sliced Johanna's head off, even if she had her reasons.
- Misao and Misuzu. I would like to know if they are related. They are in the same clan, but are they related by the blood?
- Some of Black Knights relations are rather blurred, and I don't know if they're really cared for each other as when they were alive (except the romance between them, as Ira and Invidia or Superbia and Avaritia). In the anime, I didn't have doubt about. For example, I wonder if Gula has still feelings for Superbia, even if she prayed for him. It's the same for Acedia and his sister. As they shared the same body, I don't know if he really cares for her because she is his sister or because of the power they have.
- It's the same for Lieselotte and Verard. I don't doubt for Lisette feelings, but for Lieselotte's ones for Verard, it's blurred for me. In the anime (on the other hand, it has been wasted) she didn't care about him at the end. And according to a dialogue you have with Jinsho, she left Drasuvania because she was bored in If Story.
- And in the end, in Mio's ending, Are Mio and Shione still friends or not, as Shuu kissed her? I would like complete it.
Thanks for your replies. I know it's a lot and I'm really sorry.
EveFall 18:48, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
In Sophia's words[]
the Emerald Tablet project the unlimited from the limited. Later she said it more obviously that it has the power to change the world (or create a world). But after understanding the world view, it should be obvious that the Tablet has the power of Monads manipulation, think of what Kakeru and Velard did, and Kukuri too, and Lieselotte. Although the Tablet has such power, but of course, like Johanna said, it's all depend on how the processor perceive it. Sophia didn't find it believable that such power (the power to affect the world) could exist in nature, so even if she has the full tablet, it would only be a stone with magic power to her, nothing more, nothing less. Johanna is interested in experimenting with the fragments of the stone, to see how it changes the world (sister Maria). And by the way, the Trapezohedron is only part of the God Name Tablet, in other words, Johanna had Sophia broke off a piece of the God Name Tablet to create it. One more thing, I think Lieselotte and Lizett are the same person, not alternate personalities.
Jishou 18:53, February 16, 2012 (UTC)
Thanks[]
it's helped me.
Nevertheless, there are things which are still rather complicated for me.
In the anime, even if she was in yandere mode, she could still use her power for saving Takahisa when he became but she didn't do, and she preferred stay for waiting for Kakeru. Furthermore, she kept smiling, even if when she learned Takahisa death. I know she cared a bit for Yukiko, (as in the episode 4) but finally, the others but Kakeru haven't importance for her anymore. She said it even in the episode 10. You said earlier that the Fragment was according of the bearer, so I don't think it's because of that she turned completely her behavior.
For Mio ending, I didn't speak about Shione, but Mio herself. Shuu kissed her, but after this moment, are Mio and Shione still friends after that?
For the Black knights, I know it's Avaritia who hold them connected, but are there exceptions, aren't it? I need a bit of some details for their sections, please.
So, according to a dialogue you had with Jinsho, Lieselotte and Lisette would be the same person and not alternate personalities?
Thanks
EveFall 15:51, February 17, 2012 (UTC)
Sister[]
Maria's goal is exactly the same as Johanna. Remember, no matter which world she is in, her Idea of bringing the world to the kingdom of God is the same. She doesn't care if she was messing around or not, she just want to experiment (to see) like a spectator how the power of the Tablet bring about changes. It's like, "Ooh, ooh, this is a good opportunity, I must see for myself" kinda like that.
For Lisett/Lieselotte's case, they are just one personality that changes over time. After meeting Michel, her personality is pretty much the same, but as time goes on, her soul had aged but her body had not. After all the years she lived through, she grew heavy heart and wicked. So Lisett looked at Lieselotte is like former self looking at present self.
Jishou 16:02, February 17, 2012 (UTC)
I wondered[]
Does 11eyes Resona Forma have the same game system than 11eyes?
EveFall 13:02, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
Okay[]
it can be a weird question, but I wanted to know if in 11eyes, 11eyes Crossover and 11eyes Resona forma, are there hidden scenes?
EveFall 15:04, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
There is a CG[]
apparently in Shiori's route, where Shiori seems looking someone and crying as she is reading a book. What's happened in this scene?
EveFall 23:27, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
Okay[]
I thought it was the scene where she was in the library. I wronged about it.
By the way, I added the personality section in some of characters, especially for the anime and a bit for the game, but I'm not really sure if it's right.
EveFall 15:25, February 21, 2012 (UTC)
I saw[]
you uploaded Lieselotte's section. Will you uploade others?
By the way, for SS, the Short Stories are just made for H-scene and fanservice. As in a Short Story (I don't remember well which one) there is a Lisette/Lieselotte H-scene, I suppose it's just canon, as it is a fandisk. I don't know it it can help you...EveFall 18:10, February 25, 2012 (UTC)
Hm[]
So, maybe there are some of them, especially for H-scenes, who are canons or just for laughing. I saw on the Internet that the SS were here just for entertainment and there isn't really importance in the scenario.
EveFall 18:22, February 25, 2012 (UTC)
I have a question[]
about Lisette's and Maximilien's part. The part where Michele asks a question to Lisette, a moment the text is becoming red. Is there something happening to her?
EveFall 13:55, February 29, 2012 (UTC)
Thanks[]
you Venom00.
EveFall 15:09, February 29, 2012 (UTC)
SORRY[]
I didn't have the internet with me so I couldn't ask some questions. So here I am! This cg I saw of Yukiko jumping at someone and she looks happy and there's a pink background behind her... is that cg both in Yukiko and Takahisa's route?
(76.211.225.180 5:45, March 24, 2012 (UTC)
I'M REALLY[]
confused about the Yukiko route in SDAG. If Kakeru chooses Yukiko, does it affect the cross vision scenes of Takahisa confessing that he likes her?
(76.211.225.180 1:13, March 25, 2012 (UTC)
WHO IS[]
the first popular characters in 11eyes? I know that the other two are Misuzu and Shiori, but I don't know who's the first.
(76.211.225.180 8:10, March 26, 2012 (UTC)
WHAT[]
is happening on a cg where there's a sunflower field and Kakeru and Yukiko were there together?
(76.211.225.180 2:37, March 31, 2012 (UTC)
SO THERE[]
was a party at Misuzu's house in Takahisa's route right? What was it for and what happened?
(76.211.225.180 6:44, April 10, 2012 (UTC)
This[]
cg of Takahisa walking with Ema and she holding his hand at night. Is this after the party at Misuzu's house then Takahisa goes to Yukiko's place?
(76.211.225.180 11:37, April 11, 2012 (UTC)
Do you know[]
how to suppress messages from the wikia.contributor ?
EveFall 19:33, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
I will[]
ask my question again. About Kanae, did Shuu love her ? I know Kanae liked him just by interest that he was a modern magus, but I always wondered if she could have a real affection for him ? (Personally, I will be weird but I prefer Shuu with Kanae than Mio or Shione). What do you think about ?
EveFall 19:37, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
Generally[]
What is Yukiko's After Story about ? I know there is the festival but is there something else ?
EveFall 15:23, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
Jishou[]
told me that Yuka's route was the most annoying. Will you give informations about it anyway ?
EveFall 19:44, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
In the anime[]
I rewatched and in the last episode, there is a scene where the Red Night becomes blue and I didn't really understand why.
EveFall 18:21, April 19, 2012 (UTC)